Dr. Baldwin Interviewed by German T.V. Reporter
April 23, 1998
Chuck Baldwin: Well, my friends, as I said yesterday a German television reporter has been trying to get up with me to conduct an interview. He is going to be in Pensacola, I understand, but our schedules did not mesh. So we gave to this gentleman the opportunity to interview me live on the air since that seemed to be the only way we could get together at, least at this time. So, my friends, we have right now on-line from Washington, D.C. Konrad Ege from Germany public television. Is that correct?
Konrad Ege: That is through Channel 2 German television, yes.
Chuck Baldwin: Well, wonderful. Thank you, Sir. You're on the air and we're glad that you joined us.
Konrad Ege: It's somewhat unusual to do an interview like that, but what the heck!
Chuck Baldwin: Yea, that's right. Let's go for it.
Konrad Ege: We are doing a program that looks at issues of faith, religion and politics in the United States. Obviously, things in our country are quite different. And those debates of God are quite different in Germany. And so we are looking at some places and one of the places we're most likely going to look at it is Pensacola. And traveling along the Internet Highway we want to talk Chuck Baldwin and so that's what I did. I decided to give Chuck Baldwin a call.
One of the things that you notice immediately on your page is you say about yourself that you're a pro-family man. My question is: explain that to a foreigner. What's pro-family in America? Isn't everybody for the family?
Chuck Baldwin: Yea, you would think so wouldn't you? We believe in the traditional family; by that I mean a man and a woman legally married and raising children. That formula is under attack.
Konrad Ege: Who is attacking it.
Chuck Baldwin: The gay agenda is attacking it. The feminist agenda is attacking it. We are finding that the traditional family, as we understand it, is under great attack from a variety of sources.
Konrad Ege: How does it in everyday life situation, how does it work itself out for instance in Pensacola? What happens there where you say you have to take a stand?
Chuck Baldwin: For example, let's just take the homosexual agenda which is seeking to redefine the definition of marriage. They are seeking to make, under law, marriage to mean virtually anything whether it is male/female, male/male, female/female. Some are even trying to bring down the age of consent for marriage so that Pedophiles could marry children and have sex with children legally. So the traditional concept of marriage between a man and a woman, the heterosexual union, is under great attack.
Konrad Ege: And that happens in Pensacola, too?
Chuck Baldwin: It happens nationwide. All over this country the homosexual agenda is at work. In fact, in just a few weekends we will have an infusion of homosexuals into our area. Every Memorial Day weekend homosexuals from all over the world descend upon our city because of our beautiful beaches. They come here to party and to have their gay bashes and all this kind of thing. So, yes, particularly in Pensacola that's an issue.
Konrad Ege: And another thing on your web page it says that you are a conservative Christian. Is there anything else besides a conservative Christian in your opinion? Can one be a liberal Christian?
Chuck Baldwin: Oh yea, there are many people that would identify themselves as Christians who would take the liberal side of the aisle. I would classify our President as one of those.
Konrad Ege: I think that President Clinton would say of himself, "I am a Christian."
Chuck Baldwin: That's what I'm saying. Yes, yes he would. He goes to church every Sunday, carries his Bible, says that's he's a Christian. And he certainly would not be classified a conservative.
Konrad Ege: So, obviously in this country, too, there are different opinions? Christians have different opinions.
Chuck Baldwin: No doubt about it.
Konrad Ege: So, can one be liberal and Christian?
Chuck Baldwin: I think so. Christians can commit sin, even the sin of liberalism!
Konrad Ege: One of the things Pensacola is known for, at least in the international media, is the abortion debate and the crimes that have been committed against two doctors who worked in some of the clinics. Is this still a big story in Pensacola on that issue?
Chuck Baldwin: Since the violence erupted, Conrad, there has been very little anti-abortion protests in this town. I think the pro-life community was embarrassed due to the activities of these that were prone to violence and because of that pro-life, public protest is almost nonexistent today.
Konrad Ege: That's quite a change.
Chuck Baldwin: Yes. But, it's not because the passion for the pro-life cause is not here. It's not because we have in any way altered our opinions or that we don't feel as passionately about it as we used to. It's just that locally there was such an outcry, as you can imagine, to the violence that was committed in the name of the pro-life movement that pro-life people have adopted a more subtle approach.
Konrad Ege: Some people say that when you talk about abortion is killing a human being then it's a slippery slope. I'm sure you have heard that argument?
Chuck Baldwin: Oh yes, I believe that.
Konrad Ege: And what do you say to that?
Chuck Baldwin: I concur with that. I believe that the Constitution is predicated upon the Declaration of Independence. And the Declaration of Independence says that all men are created equal and our Creator gives us certain unalienable rights and the very first one listed is the right to life. That is the most fundamental right that we have as freeborn people: the right to life. And once we abrogate that God-given right to the will of whatever political opinion may be at the present time it is indeed a slippery slope. For instance, now we're talking, Conrad, about infanticide, partial-birth abortion, euthanasia. We've taken abortion to the next level. Now we're aborting people that are almost born, killing people that are born on both ends of the life's cycle, old and young. When we lose the preciousness of life and the value of life and the uniqueness of life then what's next? Everything endemic to a free society is predicated upon the uniqueness and the preciousness of life.
Konrad Ege: Well, let me play devil's advocate. If you say abortion is murder what is different then from what you say from what Paul Hill did for instance? If you take it seriously and you say abortion is murder then don't you have the right to defend them?
Chuck Baldwin: I accept the argument. Some compare the abortuaries to the crematoriums of the Nazi Third Reich. What's the difference? I think the difference is this: in the case of an unborn baby being killed it requires the participation of the mother. Right? The mother has to agree to kill her child. So if you say in your defense for life I have the right to kill the perpetrator of the crime then I would have to kill the mother. But if I kill the mother I kill the baby.
Konrad Ege: What about the doctors?
Chuck Baldwin: Again, the doctor is only half of the equation. He cannot do his dastardly work without the permission and consent of the mother.
Konrad Ege: That, in your opinion, is the problem?
Chuck Baldwin: That's the problem. You cannot be consistent in the defense of life in the killing of the doctor because if you're consistent you have to bring the mother into account. You can't kill the mother. If you do that then you've killed the baby and I mean the whole thing breaks down, philosophically.
Now, what about those who fought the Nazis? Did they have a right to kill Nazis in World War II? I would say, Yes. But in the case of abortion it's a different scenario altogether. The same rules don't apply.
Konrad Ege: There are some people who I've talked to who are against the legalization of abortion especially from the Catholic Church. They often talk about having a whole pro-life ethic. That is to say, if you're pro-life then you also have to be, for instance, against the death penalty. Where do you come down on that?
Chuck Baldwin: You've read my web page, so you know that I'm pro-death penalty.
Konrad Ege: Why is that?
Chuck Baldwin: Well, because I believe the Bible teaches it. And I'm a Biblicist first. I predicate everything I believe on the Scriptures. And the Bible in both testaments gives to human governments the responsibility to execute first degree murderers.
Konrad Ege: In general would you be for expansion of the death penalty?
Chuck Baldwin: To include what?
Konrad Ege: Right now I think the number of people who are sentenced to death is very small compared to the number of first degree murders in the United States.
Chuck Baldwin: I don't know what the percentage is. I support the death penalty for virtually every convicted first-degree murderer, after he has had his appeals and the full process of law to defend himself.
Konrad Ege: What do you think about the recent case of Karla Faye Tucker in Texas?
Chuck Baldwin: I personally took an exception in that case. I don't take exception with the fact that she should have been executed. I'm consistent in my belief that first-degree murderers should be executed. However, I do believe that there are times when a governor has the responsibility and the privilege of exercising selected mercy. I believe that there are times, there are unique circumstances when selective mercy should be applied. In my article I merely stated that if I was Governor George Bush of Texas, if I had the power of clemency, (which he didn't really have the power of clemency under Texas law) I would have made an exception for Karla Faye Tucker. And I stand by that. I would have granted Karla clemency.
But that does not mean that I do not believe in capital punishment. I do. But obviously, I think there are times when selective acts of mercy can and should be extended.
Konrad Ege: Because of her faith?
Chuck Baldwin: Because of her repentance, her faith and her remarkable transformed life. I believe a greater good would have been accomplished with sparing her life.
Konrad Ege: On your web page, I want to get back to Pensacola itself, one of the things it says is your program has helped elect conservatives to many offices. What for instance would you credit, at least in part, to your program?
Chuck Baldwin: I'm glad you said "in part," because I would certainly never claim sole credit for anybody's election. But, I do believe that we have been influential in rallying conservatives to the voting booth. I would include our Congressman here from the first district of Florida, Joe Scarborough. He was virtually an unknown. He had never run for public office before. He was running against an ensconced, very wealthy, very experienced political opponent that everybody said had the inside track to win. This show and others who believe in the conservative message got behind Congressman Scarborough. I think if you interviewed him that he would say our program was at least partly responsible for his victory.
Konrad Ege: Anybody else?
Chuck Baldwin: Well, yes, there are local candidates on the school board and in the legislature. I think even some county commissioners, if you talked to them, would say that we've been helpful.
Konrad Ege: Another thing and then we can wrap it up so your listeners can talk to you. One of the things when you read the newspapers about the situation of Christianity and the conservative movement in the United States. Some people seem to think that conservative Christians are really tremendously powerful in this country. And others are saying including some conservative Christians too that they are more of a persecuted minority and having a lot of problems and they try to exercise their political rights. Where do you come down on that?
Chuck Baldwin: That's a good question Konrad. I think in many ways we have exercised a certain degree of political clout. I would single out the 1994 elections. Yet, I also would concur with those who say that conservative Christians are more and more becoming a persecuted minority.
Konrad Ege: In the United States?
Chuck Baldwin: Absolutely. The laws are becoming more fascist and tyrannical. Christian liberties are being stripped from us almost daily. And, conservative Christians seem to be the target, I think, because of the person that's in the White House.
Konrad Ege: Give me an example of that.
Chuck Baldwin: In the state of Alabama which is our neighboring state to the north a federal judge by the name of Ira DeMent made a ruling here just recently that told the public school teachers and principles that they could not observe any religious activity whatsoever. This is blatant infringement upon free religious expression. This federal judge has actually put "prayer policemen" in the schools to monitor compliance and to make sure that no children exercise their Christian liberties.
Konrad Ege: You mean they're talking about praying?
Chuck Baldwin: Praying, reading religious literature, making religious comments. You have to be blind, mute and dumb regarding your own religious faith according to this federal law.
Konrad Ege: Well, there is this concept of separation of church and state.
Chuck Baldwin: But that concept has been completely inverted from it's original intention, Konrad. The original intention of the Founding Fathers was that the government would not dictate conscience and that men were free to worship God and to express their faith without governmental interference. Today, that meaning has been redefined to mean that you do not have the right to practice your faith in public.
Konrad Ege: Doesn't it also mean that the government would not support any religion?
Chuck Baldwin: It means it would not financially support a particular denomination. England, for example, which, of course, was the nation that most of the Founding Fathers came from, holds to the practice of supporting a state church. The Anglican Church is the officially sponsored denomination. Tax dollars are conscripted and go to the support of that denomination. The First Amendment simply meant that there would be no official, state sponsored denomination in America.
Konrad Ege: In Germany we have a state church tax that the state collects for the church.
Chuck Baldwin: That's right. And I would argue that we in America have now crossed the line and our tax dollars are being used to promote a religious belief, contrary to the Constitution. That religious belief is called Universalism. This religious dogma is freely and routinely taught in our public schools.
Right here in Pensacola we had an example where a fellow came in to our schools and distributed literature promoting Universalism to our boys and girls. This was promoted and sanctioned by the school officials. Yet, Christians do not have the freedom to distribute our literature in the schools. Do you see what I'm saying?
So, we are sponsoring a form of religion through our tax dollars as public education teaches false, pagan religions but Christianity is completely prohibited.
Konrad Ege: But isn't it true that a very large percentage of the Americans are Christians?
Chuck Baldwin: Yea, according to the surveys I've read some 38% of the American adult population claims to be a born-again Christian.
Konrad Ege: Compared to Germany that's pretty amazing. Germany probably has 10% of the people who go to church.
Chuck Baldwin: And think of the great revivals that Germany had in years gone by. It was the German, Martin Luther who started the Protestant Reformation. It's only been the last century or so that so much of Europe has lost its Christian heritage. That's one of the reasons that America was so blessed. America has a great Christian heritage. But now we are following in the footsteps of Europe. If this trend continues it will not be very long that the Christian influence in this country is going to disappear.
Konrad Ege: Do you think the country is going downhill?
Chuck Baldwin: I think the country is in a moral and spiritual tailspin.
Konrad Ege: One final question. One of the things that is known about Pensacola internationally is the Brownsville Revival. What do you think of it?
Chuck Baldwin: I have never been to it. Theologically, I have differences with their interpretation of certain Scriptures.
Konrad Ege: You're a Baptist?
Chuck Baldwin: I'm a Baptist and, therefore, I do not concur with all of their beliefs and their methods. But I've got to tell you they have been under great attack from the local media here. And I have come to the defense of Brownsville Assembly of God and will continue to do so. Because I believe the attacks against Brownsville today will be attacks against my church or anybody else's church tomorrow. And while I disagree theologically with Brownsville I believe they have every right in this free country to exercise their faith. Let's face it. They're making an impact.
Konrad Ege: Are they making an impact on the city?
Chuck Baldwin: On the city and, I think, on the nation.
Konrad Ege: Well, good. Thanks for your time.
Chuck Baldwin: Oh, your welcome, Konrad.
Konrad Ege: I look forward to meeting you when we're doing the filming in May.
Chuck Baldwin: Right. And whenever we can get our schedules together let me know and we'll do that.
Konrad Ege: I appreciate that.
Chuck Baldwin: Thanks for calling.
Konrad Ege: Ok, bye-bye.
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